In class on Tuesday we were discussing the different theories of intelligent design. We were using the example of eyes, hearts and other biological objects as proof for intelligent design. After a bit we came to the conclusion that these are not very good examples to use seeing how they can be easily explained by the theory of evolution. We then began talking about how the probability of a universe exactly like ours is miniscule. This brought up the debate of alternate universes. I was raised Roman Catholic and no one ever suggested the existence of alternate universes but I had always wondered why God would only create one planet that supports life. I believe that there must be some other forms of life out there somewhere. Even if its just a bacteria or maybe even human-like creatures. Anyone agree or disagree?
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Well for starters I’d just like to point out wisdom teeth. One of the more unintelligent ‘designs’ in the human body. You would think our bodies would lack such a terrible flaw as teeth that have to be removed painfully. But that’s not the main point I really want to make. Another argument from design is the awesome watch example. It plays out like this:
Suppose you’re walking on the beach with your metal detector flip flops and beach towel and you find a silver watch. This is no ordinary watch though, it has all the features of a normal watch and it can find new batteries for itself as well as replace them. On top of that it can reproduce with other watches and make little baby watches. One would assume that you wouldn’t just say, wow evolution! It would be reasonable to believe that there is some super awesome watch maker (or divine creator/intelligent designer) somewhere who made this. If this is reasonable why wouldn’t it make sense for us to be intelligently created?
Granted this is a decent analogy I don’t think it necessarily proves anything, I mean it goes on our assumptions and nothing else. Personally if I found a watch that awesome I would assume it was some kind of animal and was a part of the evolutionary process. I just think its a weak argument for God’s existence.
Well I will start by saying I am completely biased because I am a biology major. However, all bias aside, I do have some things to say. Intelligent design is a plausible idea, but it has very little support. The main theories are derived from any potential flaws in evolution. While it is nice to think that everything and everyone was created, there is clear cut evidence of evolution. Consider, for instance, the giraffe. Fossil records show evidence that giraffes used to have stout necks. Somewhere along the line a mutation occurs and bam, there are more fit giraffes that can fight and have better access to food. Does this prove evolution? No. Does this disprove intelligent design? No. But what it does prove is that there are elaborate explanations for evolution, while intelligent design is more or less a cop out to research. Both the existence of God and the big bang theory are both possible, however it may not ever be possible to either correct. The first step, however, may be as you suggested. If we truly are creatures of evolution, then why haven’t there been other forms of life found in the universe? Once other life is found to have developed similarly to our own, we can not be sure which is hypothesis is correct, however evolution does have much scientific backing.
I agree that our wisdom teeth is a very unintelligent design when it comes to the human body. Iv’e never gone through the surgery myself but after hearing the horror stories I can imagine that it is a painful process. If God created man, because of his omnibenevolence, I’m sure he would try to create us so that we do not have those imperfections. But we do, so did God really create us? An explanation for our wisdom teeth is evolution. If I’m not mistaken, wisdom teeth were used to help chew food but through evolution and time their purpose became more troublesome than helpful.
Another note about evolution, if we are not supposed to be related to any animal then how can our DNA be so similar? Taking distinct points in our DNA and comparing them to other organisms reveals that genetically we are similar except for changes of a string of base pairs here and there.
Evolution is based on genetic mutations. Some mutations create traits that are helpful to organisms and some don’t even do anything at all because the mutation happened in a section of the DNA that doesn’t even code for a protein. Genetic mutations are proven to cause serious diseases. If we were intelligently designed by God wouldn’t he try to eliminate all the possibilities that we become a weaker being?
I was having this discussion with some peers, and one actually brought up the idea of God creating evolution. That he just made the starting point, and the conditions for one to grow. Now I thought that was pretty interesting, that God created mutations and whatnot, and it seems a pretty plausible thing if one is to go more in depth regarding it. So, thoughts on this?
I agree with chas8220. Wisdom teeth tend to serve as an argument against intelligent design as they advocate for evolution. They at one point had a purpose, just as our tail bone and appendix. As humans evolved and shaped their environment, and the environment shaped them, they no longer needed them and so they became vestigial. In furthering chas8220’s point, if we were intelligently designed, why would their be room for error in the replication of DNA which allows for disease or mutation? Would a OOO-Being attempt to increase the chance of beneficial mutations? But that raises the argument again of evolution.
The notion that God created evolution is definitely perplexing and definitely plausible. I was wondering if God created evolution, would he truly be the intelligent designer or would it be the environmental circumstances controlling the outcomes? And if it were the environmental circumstances, is he the designer behind those, making him a supreme creator? Or would he be the designer of only the most fundamental creatures and leave them susceptible to chance?
Last class talking about Evolution and the Multiverse has been on my mind a lot lately. I am a Christian and Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. In addition I believe in Creationism, so ever since I have been thinking about what Dr. Cullison had said about Evolution with concern to how the eye has come about. Before hand I believed it could not be explained for as I know it Evolution is a series of mutations that over time are carried though out a species’s decent as a direct result from survival of the fittest. Two thing here. First, Cullison said that the eye came to be as a result of becoming more and more sensitive to light over time whereas I thought and still think that is impossible. How does a mutation even starting to become sensitive to light in the first place come about? Secondly, from the example in class, how can a single celled organism “mutate” or Evolve to become a multicellular organism?
To my understanding, The fine tuning argument says this , In order for their to be intelligent life in the universe their has to be an intelligent designer (God)
Problem: Intelligent life HAD to exist BEFORE the universe. This is because God created the universe according to the argument. So the argument collapses right? The argument says that intelligent life can only be the result of intelligent design, but there was also intelligent life (God) before the universe was created.
Other objections: Physics is highly speculative, it could be the case, maybe, that other forms of intelligent life could form even if the laws of nature were different. How would humans really know at this stage in our development? Also, hey man, improbable things happen all the time. Maybe our universe just got lucky dude. I’ve seen crazy full court shots, soccer goals from midfield, I’ve scored highly on tests when I guessed about half of the multiple choice answers.
Also, while the watch is a good analogy for what intelligent design is, and the argument, it isn’t really comparable to our eyes and other biological systems. While the components of the clock all work together, they aren’t as unified as our bodies are, all the gears and cogs are just individual parts. And while yes, we can split ourselves down to a cellular level, for argument’s sake we are one unified unit working together, unlike individual gears that happen to interlock.
If intelligent design were the case, why would God create humans as they are? Violent, selfish creatures we are. Why would He create birth defects? Mutations that cause negative things in humans don’t seem to have that “intelligent” of a design. In my opinion, intelligent design by such an omnipotent and omnibenevolent creature would result in perfect creatures. Also, if there is intelligent design, does this mean that God created things like AIDS and smallpox? I suppose he would have to create everything, if this is the case.
I think that if God did create evolution he could actually be thought of as an “intelligent designer”. God designed with order and structure of what would be considered “perfect” for the time and what the first organism would need in order to survive. And through evolution, Gods design is still the basic outline for what makes up an animal, however when changes occur in the environment, changes will also occur in Gods “design”. But maybe that is actually Gods intelligent plan, to have us evolve.
I agree! I think the possibility of alternate universes is a completely legitimate arguement. However, I have a hard time grasping the concept of there being a different universe for all of the ways the laws of physics are possible. I’m not sure, but then wouldn’t there be an infinite amount of universes? I had a hard time understanding that. I was also raised Roman Catholic, so these arguments are interesting for me to hear, but I do think it is entirely possible that God would create other universes with life. Especially if you agree with the theory that there is a universe out there for us to live on after the world “ends”.
To back up your argument, I believe there were studies done on the planet of Mars in which they found traces of life (i.e., bacteria). I also agree that god would not create just one universe like ours that can sustain life. If god was actually the designer, which I do not believe is the case, god would have created more or have given us the intelligence to know for a fact that we are the only one like this. I do not agree with the Intelligent Design theory as a way to justify that there is, in fact, a god, due to the fact that evolution can explain a lot. I think half of these things occurred as an effect of the Big Bang, and the other half are products of Evolution. I do not believe that Paley’s clock has anything at all to do with the fact that someone designed life. I see absolutely no correlation because one involves technology, while the other is clearly scientifically justified.